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...And there is value in us giving Kenyans that opportunity, because they have a tendency for those of us who are leaders to take ordinary people for granted that they don't know that it's too complex. And you can even see that thread of trying to take advantage of ordinary people so you're saying even separate questions even even, even in this whole process, you know, even when we are giving out a new Act today.
How many Kenyans have read the text of BBI JT. But we are rushing them because, in our opinion, what they think. Doesn't matter. Right. And you know we have to change the whole paradigm, on how we take the people have to understand and that is why. That's why you'll see that even in the text of this constitution this time around.
We have actually put their thumbs to push from all sectors adequately limit. He even speaks to the business of ordinary people, which has never been in the Constitution, because we need to have a whole paradigm shift on how we view data will lead and mark will not accept that their views, their concerns, their ideas. They are proposals for so much, and I'm saying yeah, this time, what we are saying, instead of confronting Kenyans with a yes or no.
We have a tendency to want to have no issue. For example, with 35% going to countries, but they have an issue on see the Ombudsman with a judiciary and why me, why would we force, citizens to see if you are voting for 35% going to counties.
Then you must vote for everything else that is there, but but but Dr Ruto you know that at some point a choice has to be made because look for example, each of those articles that you talk about would also have some articles for example I'm thinking about say article 151 on the Office of the Prime Minister for example. So what if I like sub article two a which gives the Prime Minister power for example to lead to government business in the National Assembly, but what which we've talked about supervising government. But what what what would you say now we need to have another added another question on the A and the hitch.
You are not a legal expert, yo. That's why you're talking about we can imagine what the experts can be able to package, the sections that go together. And this is not something we are doing for the first time in Kenya. For information. Many countries. Let me tell you next week, Liberia, which is a common good country like us.
He was going to vote on a multiple choice referendum with three different issues, and the Supreme Court in Liberia identified that you can vote for them independently. New Zealand, which is also another Commonwealth country has voted on a referendum, with seven issues, Switzerland, Peru, Ecuador, you name it, even in the US, even in the election, just to play. So what I'm what I'm saying is presenting a multiple choice referendum is actually giving the Kenyan people, the latitude to make a decision on an article by Article basis. It is actually the best way we should flatten out and render. For your information, the proxy can now.
Allow me to make this a full information. Our parliament is already fashioning. The referendum bill. That means a possibility of us going to a referendum with a chip passage, well if it has not prompted is not a lawyer. But let's get back to this multiple choice referendum fear that you're talking about.
So you want us to go to the election, and do the referendum at the same time, and you're saying that in addition to the six questions that were usually the six that we usually take, we add another seven six or seven, which may have some sub articles, even though you say they've been grouped in whichever way, and you're saying that we have to vote on all of these things and get them all right, you will not get another way of saying no to this technology.
In fact, you're being simplistic. No, I am not you are actually thinking of how not to do it, the ABC, we are the ABC I interviewed the former ABC share medica son and he told me that his best recommendation would have been for us to even start at a six that we already have, because it is too much it is too much work the electoral officials get exhausted and that sort of thing.
And so he said that the best thing would be for us to not do this fixed together. Now you are here saying that we should in fact, add seven other filmmakers, let me let me tell you, Joe. You are completing the two because you, you want to make it look like.
You're the one who said, Oh, let me help you. And can you speak fast about the monastery's referenda before you convoluted with a general election, can we can we can we can we stop there. I didn't make them no no you know yesterday, the public.
You want to confuse the public, because you want to show the public how it's not possible. But let me tell you, It is the same, that same mentality that you have is what is informing the distaste, and the taking for granted, of Kenyans, because there is this perception base this narrative that Kenyans are unintelligent, you know, they cannot, they cannot make these choices. My friend, go to an election, Joe voting for six different positions MTA 10 candidates. Women have 15 candidates. The next 20 candidates, but Kenyans are still able to choose. Sometimes, the President or a different party. Governor of a different party.
Senator one independent party, they're still able to choose, and they are choosing from 100 people, you want to tell me that we will go to a referendum with six items, and these Kenya will get so confused. He will not know the difference between.
Do you want the Ombudsman in the judiciary, he can get confused. Do you want stratified percent to be sorted to be transferred to the county. You know, it is it is the same thing that we keep under estimating the intelligence of cannons and thinking that they are fools. So, they will not be able to do this, my friend. I want to tell you.
Okay, there is one politician who understands the graphic. And who goes and has visited many parts of Kenya Kenyans are not, what is our time imagine that they are. They know what they want to say to you, but anyway let's, let's assume that, what she was saying what possible, the Secretariat of the BBI says the outcome yesterday that collected 4 million signatures. And in fact today.
They said that the process had actually been completed. So I you say and those signatures, by the way were collected on the basis of the bill that is there now. Are you saying tonight. Is it your position today, that they should throw away all those signatures that this proves also not at all so that they can satisfy well who are not at all.
It is possible. Joe before the referendum question is presented to IBC, it is possible to make those changes, but they're talking about science, I am sure you know people who sign up I love the basis of the one bill, you know, in fact you're confusing this. We are, we are talking process.
When the people signed the same for the content. Right. But they didn't time to say they haven't voted yet Oh no, they signed in loving this referendum have this issue. And there is absolutely no that bill yeah they paid for the bill for the B. But if we structure the referendum, such that, out of the deal. We have six different questions. That is what they stand for, then they will go to before, a ballot box.
They have this ballot paper. Item number one, do you want 35% transfer to counties. Yes. Item number two. Do you want the judiciary to have an ombudsman, yes. Item number three. Do you want a 47 women and you want a prime minister talk generally about the legislature, do you want the changes that have been made in the legislature. Yes. Do you want the changes that have been made in the executive.
Yes. What is so difficult. Now they have said they are going on. What are you going to do this no problem. I mean, they should go on a collection of signatures, is the easy path, you know, two things are possible. Joe, and it is important for Kenyans to, to understand. Proposals we are making. For example, on content for number one.
We believe that to remove the comfort of the judiciary on the appointment of the Ombudsman, and there is absolutely. Even the judiciary is not abusing accountability. And we all believe that every arm of government must be held to account, but they are saying, they do not want a straight perpetration where it looks like what are they telling you, did you see did it you see they they made a communication inducing. So, what do you have anything to add to speaking for the judiciary judiciary the judiciary.
Considering that institution. Yeah, right. That kind of institution job, which you know I refer to them as a quarter when the dpu went for your defend on the judiciary, the difference maybe between me and you, I don't hold grudges.
Yeah, if I disagree with you today, it doesn't mean I would disagree with you tomorrow. That is that, that's how life is. you know, and if you wronged me today, I will tell you about me. But that doesn't mean we become enemies. The reason that the fact that we took issue with the division of the judiciary at that time, did not mean that we hit the tradition.
You know we just took issue with what they did, but that does not mean, like, of ability and independence to make a decision such as nullifying the election. In fact, which was nullified. In fact, I never used the word Walker. You did an absolutely Madura, you said, it will do right you said that the judiciary should know that they do not elect the people do have them that was meant to say that the judiciary had by so nullified your election purported to be electing the president isn't that interfering with the independence. Now you're telling me my opinion, which you're not saying that you're we are talking we're not talking here, we're talking about writing the Constitution.
When you are discussing writing the Constitution. Everybody is your module is a module people are questioning that's why they think this is a disguised way of my friend, my friend Joe, you know, you. What you're doing is you're saying, if you have an issue with the judiciary, because of a decision they make.
That means you, you're the judicial becomes your enemy perform it. In fact, let me tell you one thing, Joe, when I pass was elected a Member of Parliament in 1997. He told me as a new member of parliament he told me yeah man. I know you are I can see you are a very enthusiastic support of Canada.
But let me tell you, the best way to support our government is to criticize it when it goes wrong. Right. The fact that we could cite the judiciary, when they do something we do not think they have done right, does not mean we did the tradition. In fact, we support the judiciary. And we want to tell them so that if they have done something wrong, they should correct.
So, I am perfectly in order today to say, an independent judiciary is good for me, whether I'm in government or in the opposition. And that is why I'm saying. The, the issue of the independence of the judiciary. The issue of. We are, we are suggested, for example, in terms of the content.
We are saying. The current BBI proposal attitude. We have a decision to be made in the Senate, we have removed that woman, while attending the National Assembly. We will have a nomination of close to 100 members of parliament of members of parliament in the National Assembly, who are women.
We are saying, in particular, ruminating a whole 100 women into the National Assembly. Why don't we bring back the women reps, because the principle of democracy, again, is not for me as a party leader or the next person. It is for the people to elect as much as possible. Women representation, or in fact the any representation should be a product of people, electing unless about nomination. So we are thinking that, yes, we should have four to seven women elected elected in there in the Senate.
47 women elected in the National Assembly, and then we can now discuss nominations, which should be lower than 50. So that we as much as possible. representation is by people's election. And I am sure. The BBI six diet.
And, and everybody knows that that is reasonable. Tonight, it is good for women to be elected, more than to be nominated to staying tonight, that those women, whatever number of seats they have in Parliament. They should wait until the next election to get those benefits because if we do the referendum together with the election that means that one.
The article 81 will not be resolved, because chances are, we'll still elect what Justice maraga called in his opinion and unconstitutional parliament. So you're saying all these benefits that you think can accrue from BBI should wait for a certain time, post 2022 maybe even 2027, because how do you remake the composition of Parliament midstream after the election in 2022. Let me tell you, Joe.
There is no crisis, about changing the Constitution, we can resolve the women issue. Even if you don't go to a referendum. Right. So the fact that we are going to add a friend, means we can carry everything to a friend.
And for your information, we are saying, Yeah, and legitimate reasons why we need to think, and we need to consider whether it is time to hold the referendum now, or beyond that randomization. Let me ask you took in a good position, so very telling me your second position or India.
Are you telling me. Are you telling me you are not aware that we have a pandemic in Kenya. But there are people who can put food on the table we had it for the way. Okay, it's not just what you cannot see but it also. In the fandom I do then saying, Let the people die in a way because others have died.
No, I'm saying, you also have to we have to stop. We have to stop. And for your information. I mean, please be a bit human. In this country, we have today, on average, 100 is dying every hour program. I have just told you the situation I will say today. Today, I was in kajabi, because we were launching an ICU facility again to support the whole process of ensuring that there are adequate facilities to treat these serious, serious, serious pandemic.
There are candidates today, who have lost loved ones, they have people in the hospital they cannot take them. There is a serious financial problem in Canada. You are the only one that can stop us from dealing with cars. We have a financial situation in the country. Today, as we as we talk. We have to reach we have to engage the IMF.
Can we sit in our desks, the Minister for Finance was in Parliament yesterday saying exactly that. We have serious issues about how we are going to be for hospital bills. We are going to have a meeting tomorrow with Governor, to discuss with them, how to further our, our, our interventions on matters to do with our children are supposed to go to school in the next one month, we are discussing about how to buy desks, how to make sure that they are enough.
Are there enough critical facilities, how they want to have money. I'm telling me Joe that with all these studies here, you do find any marriage, that we can have this referendum in 22, to save the cost of 14 billion in April next year. And another 40 billion a year later, to do all this. And surely in a situation where the country is in a financial crisis. We are in a serious pandemic Kenyans are asking themselves as we talk today.
Doctors have chosen to strike for from Monday, why they don't have PPS, they don't have protective gear. Many 35 health professionals have died. 12 specialists doctor have died shortly Kenyans are asking themselves. How we mark. My question to you want to DPI hear you about the pandemic it's been so my question is, reality.
Exactly. So so many people have asked whether other things have stopped because of the pandemic many people have so many people have also asked whether in fact, we haven't lost more than 14 billion in very unnecessary causes people stealing and lots of during this government but you're part of. But the question I'm asking. Now, if they go ahead with a referendum during a pandemic. Are you going to oppose the referendum. You're just not also be simplistic. The position I have taken that referendum is possible, a win win outcome is visible. I have taken that position. Out of knowledge. Let me give you two reasons why I insist that we shouldn't have atavistic referendum. I participated in the referendum in 2005. I participated in the referendum in 2010. In 2005, we had a, we had a seriously defeated referendum, which led to a defeated election. And we had the clusters consequences.
After is possible Kenya. I do not want to travel that road again. Number two, as I sit here. I am the Deputy President of the Republic of Ghana. My boss. The president of Kenya. Article 131 of the Constitution is the symbol of the unity of this nation. I have a duty to do everything in my power to make sure that where there exists a chance for Kenya to travel together.
We left. Trouble lucky. Are you are you telling him that I believe that there is a chance for us to have an untested, provide idling and non dBc referendum. What I like what I took with my boss is not for us to discuss you know we extended that both of you right now as you say the president is a symbol of national unity not the unity of the two of you. Exactly. So, I'm telling you this I will not. I do not have the luxury, which others have the President and I do not have the luxury to run a process that has the potential of certain, the unity of the country.
Let me tell you, my position. Whether we have at the moment will then have random succeeds or not is not as important to me as keeping the country united. Putting to me. I placed greater premium in making sure that this country is united. And if it gets to a place where the option is to divide the country, or to step back, or stomach. That means to not take part at all. No, I'm just saying, you know, I do think we are getting there.
But my position is the following, that we should not party, I will not participate as William Ruto in anything that divides the people of Canada. I know, I know better, that we should take these away, and that is why I am proposing. He does have a multi choice, referendum.
What will that do Joe, it will this thing of yours block and no block, we will all be yes or no. And there will be no need for all this contest, because there are people. Does it bother you, I strongly believe that we should have no idea. So that we can have a competition, so that we can carry this competition to 2022. No that really doesn't bother you.
Don't bother you that the President doesn't seem to share this concern about national unity in the manner that you frame it right now. I continue. President apart. Being My boss is my friend key chef. And these are issues me and him have discussed that. Therefore, that is spite of this discussion. He is going ahead and promoting the DBA. As if. Now, in the middle of the pandemic and promoting a referendum before the election. limitary Joe. These are discussions, especially on the matter of holding the country together.
I continue without fear of contradiction or without a doubt that person cannot achieve that position with me. We have discussed that, whatever it takes. In whatever format. We must not allow a divided country. Me and him have suffered as a result of a debriefing process.
We are not to cover that journey and get back to it again. and therefore I will do anything possible to push for us to have a consensus, so that we can go and make choices in our referendum, whether we do it before the election, or whether we do it with the election that are the new tenants, the options to choose what they will do a yes or no, we lose all or nothing.
And your condition is for current conditions in no condition. Okay, let's talk about that in a short while, but we have to take a break right back with the last part of my interview with the DP from the semi finals of tea apartment, comes the new hit show, Mike after the first five times interactive TV format or on the African continent.
The global music competition a docu series to make Africa is a window into youth culture on the streets of Ghana, Kenya, Nigeria, South Africa, Rwanda and Mauritius. The series has to make the up and coming singers rappers dancers and artists and using the tape back the life path.