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When we work on the constitution that candidate in 2010. There were law, provided that. This exercise will go in this manner. These are the people responsible, and this is the process. Unfortunately for the, for the for the exercise we are engaged in.
There is no legal framework. So we have to work with what we have. And fortunately, there are people listening and and and and and changes are being made, and Kenyans are witnessing that indeed, some of the concerns that have been raised and been taken on board, but but by me to say that the legal framework I mean some people would say the president appointed a task force which I would imagine is within his power to appoint, and they brought recommendations. And right now, they are collecting signatures, which is a requirement in the law under Article 255 about amending the constitution through a popular initiative. What is outside the law in all these things that are going on.t
I think they need to be contextualized you know for example, Joe. The Supreme Court already made a decision. That process is as good as the result. So, we need to be careful on that process. What is the process we are following elita popular initiative. And it is a popular initiative.
And how is it being done, or is it a parliamentary initiative, because those not in the provision of the Constitution section 255. Then when you have lawyers as you stand here tonight, you're saying that you have absolutely no idea what procedure. This attempts to amend the condition is following you cannot find it in the law. Other people, we are already in the process.
At some point, maybe to become clear, But you'll get as good as mine would not have a legal legal framework that is supporting this process like the way the 2010 to a five a constitution making process, and was undertaken. But that is neither here nor there. What is important now is that we are in this process. Right. And let me tell you, Joe. I know they use a lot of push that, you know, The, the train has left the station is too late. Where were you in two years.
You know, question around Can I didn't say yesterday, it is never too late to do the writing on the meat of what you are saying. And it applies the same when when I spoke in in Boma when other stakeholders spoke subsequently Mama. There was the same argument. Why are you speaking now. Why is the judge speaking now. Why is this good speaking now.
But, because of the weight, and the seriousness of what everybody was saying. Visa prevailed. and the promoter of the of have BBI to come on board. What can you say, including what some of us said, including what the church said including what other stakeholders said, and I think in this country. It is important for us to listen to.
And that is why I have said, and I've been consistent and up to now, I still believe that we shouldn't have a Windows. We should have been posted and we'll define them through consensus, we should be able to define that in a moment but what I'm trying to get at tonight you're saying this process is essentially illegal. You're saying that you want consensus, and you're not going to go to the DBS Secretariat where they have been collecting signatures and doing all of these things.
And you're still telling us, you're not saying no. In this referendum. You see, the words that what you have said and your words. They're not my words. Yeah, I'm very careful on what I say. Because I hold myself to account for everything I say. I have told you that this is a constitution making process. The Constitution is not about the people promoting the Constitution is about everything, myself included.
As a part to eat the Constitution of Kenya is being amended. And I said, in Boma. I do not have the luxury to stand aside and say, since I know the promoter of this exercise. I do not want to do anything about it. Because if I don't do anything about it. Yeah, we will end up with a document. And if the room thing happens. What happens to that gentleman in a in Germany's.
He clubs. Another movement where there was a match in new law machinima was a Lutheran priest. And he said the following highlight because he ended up in a detention camp. So much instead. When they came for the socialists, I did not pick out there was I wasn't associate. When they came for the trade unionists. I didn't speak up, because I was electrician, trade unionist when they came for the Jews, I did not speak up, because I was not a Jew.
Finally, when they came for me. There was nobody to speak. What I'm seeing as a foreigner. I'm here. I'm not Kenyan. Something is happening to the Constitution. And it is my duty. I do not want to say I do not want history to judge me that William Ruto was there. He was the deputy president. The new something that was not right, was happening. He didn't say it. He had good ideas on how we could end up with a better document. He was selfish. He did not step out to say, I think this document can be made better.
This is what what when I do the who would believe you when you say that when in fact on the 10th of August when we spoke here. You told me that you know I hear they are doing something, do you know what they are doing. You said a few weeks after that, when you are meeting some MCs in Sukhoi, you said that you hear that they are doing something once attended a party Bogota, Colombia and in India and it sounded like someone who's invested in this process who wants to market but let me tell you something that a bystander favor history to that full information do you have the my boss, the presidency key moments that I participated in the appointment or in the nomination of the people who eventually became part of the BBI a committee, which is the truth.
But when we were nominating those people. Changing the constitution was not part of them. And it was very clear. It was not part of their brief. That's why, if you look at the nominations that came from the Jubilee side. We are actually nominating people whose brief was to bring people together. Generally, peace, meeting. That's why we have.
We nominated the chairman of the QC council of elders. Nominated, the chairman of the Canadian Council of Elders. We nominated denominator de la shomo. I have been on peace carbon Sudha in Kambou, that was the frame. It was not about the Constitution, but that is me. When this exercise was concretize into our Constitution. Then it was necessary for us to step in and say, Okay, let's look at what proposals are being made. Right.
And you won't you agree with me, Joe, but some of the interventions that we have made. Why not and that's why today. The issue of IBC and appointing IBC and appointing politicians or political parties appointing people in the IBC have been dropped because it would compromise the independence of the AI in ABC.
The same thing with a Police Service Commission, that we introduced in ministers and politicians to run the police, it will undermine the independence of the police, and it will take us back from where we came from.
Same thing to matters to do with judiciary, same thing to the matter has to do with Senate, meaning that the people who are promoting a people the promoted obey, I am DBI are also intelligent and reasonable people. They are listening to reason, and the rest of us. And every can who believe they have an input to make to make this process because once it becomes a matter about the Constitution. You would be vague and patriotic.
If you have good ideas, and you didn't want to be the president lie to you and you are pointing this people already renege on the progress Have you asked him why the line ended up under the Constitution. Yes you contributed to naming people to that committee, Joe, I think it's only fair, not to use very harsh words. I don't think the President of can lie to anybody. Right. Just barely understand maybe, maybe, maybe they'll never know maybe you know the theme went in there. You know, and maybe other issues came up and it became necessary for them and you were not told recommended to recommend recommend constitutional changes.
And for a long time, this process was largely between the President and the former prime minister. And I think that people who feel that former Prime Minister's corner was uncomfortable with my participation. And I didn't mind, you know, allowing the force. In fact, I have, I had made a comment that I would maybe concentrate on running the W agenda. Right. Once this is formalized and we have a final position, the rest of us who can make whatever contribution, we have, and then take the validity work keep going back to this is as follows. You're saying that this process.
One is outside the law. If I didn't go by your words, no you actually know that there is no legal framework in English that really just means there is no legal framework, but that does not mean it is illegal, no legal framework is happening within the context of the law, isn't it, that is what I'm telling you there is no legal framework guiding this process, the way we had a legal framework when we were doing the CRC for so you nominated people.
With that in mind, but be that as it may, the president because he has been promoting BBI so for some reason the President went ahead with a process that changed the agenda of what you agreed the two of you, and you're telling me that it is not reasonable for someone to complete that either the President did not honor what you had agreed, or somehow he lost control of that process to some other people, where maybe you'll find that a president, maybe you can ask him that question but as I told you he was aware, from, from where I sit and the original agreement was that there was no constitutional changes.
But along the way, you know, things can happen along the way maybe after the peace meetings, and whatever it is, but they got along the way. It became necessary to make recommendations on changes to the Constitution, and I have absolutely no problem with that because we are here, there is no country. And I have said, out of purchasing. And the fact that this is now a process that is going to change our Constitution. And because the president of Kenya. Who is my boss is involved in this process. It is my duty to make sure that I make my contribution to make this process.
Now, as, as good as it can get, and to ensure that it eventually succeeds. And we managed to bring about a better outcome in the best way possible. That is why I have gone out of my way, we need to take a break to make my contribution. And I have all the way, insisted that we must not make this process, a division process.
Alright, thank you. We're taking a short break here we're speaking to the deputy president on the VDI process, what's really going on, and is planning the side of the story as it were, we'll be back after a short while with the second part of it.
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